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LuckyMoneyPuck

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Forum: NHL Signings9 hours ago
Thread: Carolina Hurricanes signed Ryan Suzuki (1 Year / $775,000 AAV)
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>JuanDamienNebraska</b></div><div>You love to complain about not playing Poulin, but along with his injuries and mental health struggles that stunted his development, he hasn’t earned anything at all until this summer. He’s been playing catch up. It shouldn’t be handed to him. The NHL is earned and, though through some tough circumstances, he didn’t earn it for years. He finally put up decent AHL numbers this year during another injury plagued season and got a contract and public push from the GM. Now he has a shot and has to earn his keep. Just because you’re drafted in round 1 doesn’t mean it should be handed to you. Now is his shot. He didn’t deserve it prior. Simple.</div></div>

maybe guys wouldn't have such mental health struggles if you, you know, played them?
Forum: NHL SigningsThu. at 7:43 a.m.
Thread: Carolina Hurricanes signed Ryan Suzuki (1 Year / $775,000 AAV)
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>BigVuVu</b></div><div>if Suzuki is that good, he will be gone on waivers cause he is not making a team unless 2 of our centers are gone.
if Aho, Kuzy, Drury, Staalsy and KK stay, he's AHLer. If only 1 of them is gone (KK for what I'm praying) he's healthy extra</div></div>

if teams want to give young guys a chance they do.
I'm not over here making judgements on the guys talent level or not, or some argument about "depth" on cCAR, but he was a 1st round pick for a reason and at 23 it's well past time to just give him a chance on the ice to see what he can actually do on that level or cut bait is my point.
If you aren't going to give him a chance, don't block his path, there are other teams in the league maybe one of them will give him a legit chance.
But if you sign him to sit him in the AHL at age 23.... you are wasting your own time and his.
By 22-23 you either can or you can't. Get it over with give the guy his chance and find out.
Forum: NHL SigningsWed. at 6:50 p.m.
Thread: Carolina Hurricanes signed Ryan Suzuki (1 Year / $775,000 AAV)
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>Caniac2000</b></div><div>Oh, so you want to rant about Poulin, because Suzuki had a career threatening eye injury, which is why he's playing in the AHL. He needs time to get his vision back before playing at the NHL level with a blidnspot like he does</div></div>

Dude the eye injury was in 2019 that's not the reason he's still playing in the AHL.
His vision isn't coming back, the damage is done. That's how he plays now.
If you are going to throw him on the ice like that in the AHL, you might as well throw him on the ice at the NHL level too and give him his chance already to see if he can play.

Which was the whole point, nothing to do with Poulin other than to say, these guys aren't getting even a shot to see what they can do.
If you think the kid has the potential to play, it's time already. Give him a legit shot already instead of wasting his time.
Forum: Armchair-GMWed. at 6:35 p.m.
Thread: If we were trying to get tougher to play against
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>JuanDamienNebraska</b></div><div>I wouldn’t even trade Graves for Anderson one for one. Also, MTL doesn’t need LD anyway. By the way, he definitely would not be playing with Crosby if he were acquired.

You lowballed Zadorov and Domi, and I’d rather resign Ned as backup.

DOC is too fast and too good of a forechecker to move to center, if he’s even capable of that switch. He’s effective at wing.</div></div>

how can someone be "too fast" to play center????
They cover more ice than anyone on the ice and some of the fastest players in the league.. like McDavid, are centers.....

If you want to say it's because he throws his weight around, well centers do that too. Look at PLD.

The reason DOC is a winger and not a center is because of his hands. Nothing to do with speed or forechecking. He doesn't have the hands to be a center nor the vision.
Forum: NHL SigningsWed. at 6:29 p.m.
Thread: Carolina Hurricanes signed Ryan Suzuki (1 Year / $775,000 AAV)
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>Caniac2000</b></div><div>Suzuki isn't not playing because of talent, it's his injuries. Suzuki's talent is unquestionable. He's a sparkling player when he's in the lineup, but he is so rarely in any lineup</div></div>

Yeah PIT fans all heard the same on Poulin... oh if he could just stay healthy.......
He's got 2 years of 50 some games at the AHL level on top of 2 years of roughly 30 games...
They could have given him a chance by now if they wanted too... Which is the point I'm making.
If you aren't going to let the kid play and cut him a path... what's the point........
Wait just like Poulin..... I'm expecting another year starting in the AHL.... for what reason exactly???
Just play the kid already instead of coming up with excuses as to why he got hurt in the AHL when he shouldn't have been there to begin with.
Forum: Armchair-GMWed. at 6:24 p.m.
Thread: go big or go home
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>Tjm220</b></div><div>You’re really hung up on the “getting out of his contract” phrase, aren’t you? If you get a fourth round pick for him, I would think they’ll take it. He’s kind of like Pat Maroon, except he plays Center and therefore has a little more value. You say he’s always stuck off in his own end, isn’t that just the way the team decided to use him? His bad numbers are the team’s fault then I guess, Since they don’t give him opportunities to succeed and contribute offensively. If he’s such a face off dynamo having him start out in the offensive zone might not be a bad idea so you get possession inside your opponent’s blue line. Is Pittsburgh’s head coach just an idiot?</div></div>

hung up on it, you're the one who said it and I said it ain't so and off and running your rambling to defend it went.... dragging down dirt roads to Girgensons conparisons.
Like ok dude.... can you say, unable to accept that's not how it is without telling me you are unable to accept that's not how it is.

my god look at you now, going on to the coach... like he's going to get Ozone starts over Crosby and Malkin....
Forum: NHL SigningsWed. at 6:21 p.m.
Thread: San Jose Sharks signed Will Smith (3 Years / $4,150,000 AAV)
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>yikes</b></div><div>Bro you should read your posts and realize you’re just yapping.

I’m providing experts after you said there are none.

Then you say they can be wrong. Then you just yap some more and say the draft ain’t good.

But I provided what you said wasn’t out there and then you just hold firm.

If you read my point it was that you mainly said:

Macklin ain’t a franchise level player / not as good of a prospect
Macklin ain’t being hyped like the other posters said

But I showed you:
He’s basically almost on level with Bedard in terms of pre draft analysis and hype - but he hasn’t garnered it due to not being in the CHL, yet he’s playing in a harder league.
And that yes, some pros who don’t argue on capfriendly forums think Celebrini can be a franchise 1C.

Im not even saying Celebrini is better than Bedard or on his level. I’m just saying he’s proven there should be some hype around him. But to just scoff at Celebrini and say he’s not all that good is just a subjective opinion not a fact.

And your response was “nope wrong”.

Like you’re not even trying to converse as I said, you’re being stubborn and just arguing to be right not to converse lmao.

<img class="for_img" src="https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GOr_dI5awAAupFA.jpg" alt="GOr_dI5awAAupFA.jpg">
If we follow Baders model - which is pretty objective and I think a fair one to use for prospects as it’s not complicated.
Both Celebrini and Smith out pace Draft year expectations for Malkin and Crosby. No one saying they’re going to be better. No one. We’re talking about the excitement for new players in the league. So the hype is warranted - it shows why you saying other posters are talking “out their a**” is just factually wrong.</div></div>

dude you are over here constantly trying to compare MC to Crosby.
Just stop.

You make up straw man points and ramble.
The points were never that MC isn't a good player. Never. The point was he's not a franchise level guy and teams need that guy to be real contenders and analytics prove that.

If you can't get that, sit down.

God knows you can stop trying to throw his name next to Crosby and show some "model" that puts him to comparable to Crosby and McDavid.... he's not, and people who do such things are click bait idiots.
There are serious qualitative differences between him and those two. It's not even a close comparable. You should be embarrassed rambling that nonsense and thinking anyone should take it seriously.

Yes we know he's a got a chance to be a good young player... your hype nonsense strawman nonsense.
Lafrenière is a good player too, star portential...... but he's not a FP and people knew that at draft. But you have to get past the click bait hype machine that you think is just "fine" to get that far.

But you clearly aren't reading or have 0 ability to comprehend as that your strawman was never the point.

The point was a whole lot of people talking "future looks bright".... well future looks like mediocrity without a FP forward and analytics show that.
He's not that. Good player, yes, FP no. There is no indication of that right now.

NO FP....NO real contender constant uphill climb. That's what analytics show in the league.
I don't make the rules, I just point out the facts of history.
You over here arguing like you're his mom.
Forum: NHL SigningsWed. at 6:05 p.m.
Thread: San Jose Sharks signed Will Smith (3 Years / $4,150,000 AAV)
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>Rangsey</b></div><div>How are you defining "Franchise Level" player. And what does draft stock have to do with it. Because Barkov is exceeding his draft expectation by a mile. Same with Kucherov. Celebrini at his draft rates better than both at their draft.</div></div>

talent level to NHL peers. Where a generational is more best of an era able to break multiple records.

You are clearly wrong on Barkov, not sure why you are trying to bring him up here. He was 2OA behind MacKinnon. At draft he was predicted to be a FP. It's like you are throwing mud against a wall looking for something to stick and say 'gotcha".

Kucherov clearly outplayed his draft status. But it was clear by year two. But there are many factors as to why he went so low. A lot of people blame the "russian" factor on that. That it's harder to scout over there. But he had other issues, originally said he was going to stay in the KHL for awhile, until he had his falling out over there. Which may have scared teams off. He also at the time was suspected of dealing with a shoulder issue. Which eventually got surgery after being drafted. He is on record saying he didn't have the money to pay for it and that TB paid for his surgery after he was drafted.
Which all combined pushed him down the second round. But that's more in his fall out story and why he came to the NHL when he did.

No one is saying a guy can't play up his draft status. But those are guys who either fall for a reason or usually aren't getting the same level of attention as MC.

MC is well scouted, while it's possible fact is, most people know. They are more likely to get it wrong the other way around aka predicting they will be and they aren't... think Lafrenière.
Than they are to say he's not a FP and he ends up being one.
Forum: Armchair-GMWed. at 5:40 p.m.
Thread: go big or go home
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>Tjm220</b></div><div>And I suppose that Robinson and Jost are so much better than whoever the hell Acciari was playing with? Okposo may have been the only linemate Girgensons had all year worth anything and that’s not saying too much. Acciari may be better on face-offs, but isn’t he also quite a bit older? Much like Riley Smith I’m wondering when he’ll hit a wall and not really be worth it anymore. He can still be useful like a lot of older vets that haven’t hung it up yet, but I wouldn’t expect anyone paying much to get him. And I’m still not sure the Sabres are looking for a fourth line player with a multi year deal.</div></div>

Lets clear this up since you keep shifting goal posts.

1. This whole thing you are going on comparing Girgensons to Acciari has nothing to do with the actual point made. You viewed Acciari as if he's some problematic contract to move.. I have proven otherwise.
2. It doesn't matter if he's older, his contract is only 2 year at damn near nothing. As I said, it's 850k buried. That's little risk on a 2 year deal for a guy giving you a 54.5% faceoff as a 4th line center starting 85% of his starts in the Dzone and PKing.
3. I'm not trying to say he has some huge value... but it sure isn't to the level of "probably accept a seventh round pick if it meant getting rid of his contract." As if getting out of his contract was some huge issue. It's not. I imagine either this year or next year, if the penguins aren't in the playoff race, someone will look toward Acciari giving them a decent 4th line center who can win draws and PK for their playoff run for the price of a 4th round pick.
So it's not like they are in some huge need to get out of that contract like it's a bad contract. It's not. It's a low risk, contract for a decent defensive forward, who if they had more help probably does more offensively but being stuck with guys like Harkins, Hinostroza, and Gruden. for most of the year weren't helping him.
Forum: NHL SigningsWed. at 5:27 p.m.
Thread: San Jose Sharks signed Will Smith (3 Years / $4,150,000 AAV)
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>yikes</b></div><div>He’s been moving the goal posts.

Another commentor pointed out Mackinnon too as an example but <a href="/users/LuckyMoneyPuck" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer noopener">@LuckyMoneyPuck</a> calls Nate Dawg - <em>just a franchise level player</em> not a generational player.

Which is so funny as I’d probably take Nate Dawg over generational players like Matthews.

Now here’s where it’s funny.

Because he critiqued an earlier comment of mine saying Celebrini can’t ever have a chance of out performing a generational player - like a Bedard because Bedard has that special shot and Celebrini can’t just out work and compete him to be better….

But Nate Dawg doesn’t have a generational shot or by Lucky’s standards - no generational tools. But you know what he has? A unbelievable compete, skating, IQ, and drive (among other things).

And you know who has similar quality’s. Celebrini..

Celebrini has a long road ahead. And he’s got a lot of work to do. But I chose to believe in him. And he’ll obviously have my support.</div></div>

dude, you can't read. No one called Bedard a generational player FFS dude learn to read.
you making straw man arguments and then saying people are moving goal posts.
Forum: NHL SigningsWed. at 7:39 a.m.
Thread: San Jose Sharks signed Will Smith (3 Years / $4,150,000 AAV)
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>Rangsey</b></div><div>Who did Vegas have that was "franchise" level by your definition?
Stone seems revisionist when talking about draft prospects since he was so late. Eichel? I'd wager Celebrini ends up being on par with Eichel.
Dallas look the business this year but don't have a "Franchise" player. Similar case with Florida, Barkov, Chucker are very good but "Franchise"</div></div>

I have already answered this above. people have stated Eichel played at a FP level, I don't agree that he is one. Which is why I put the number at 70% and not 80%.

Barkov is a FP level of player, there is no question about that. That was actually a very good draft year for high end talent.

DAL does not have one, but they haven't won yet either and that same team has had trouble getting it done. Don't count eggs before they are hatched.
That is a very deep team. They do have a lot of talent. If that's the goal of what it takes to win without a FP, you shouldn't be too happy with that. In the cap era it's hard to build that.
That same was true with VGK, who had to manipulate the cap to do it. So be careful on your comparisons. You might not find to many friends with them.

Point being history shows a pattern, you can choose to ignore it to your own peril.
Forum: NHL SigningsWed. at 7:28 a.m.
Thread: San Jose Sharks signed Will Smith (3 Years / $4,150,000 AAV)
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>yikes</b></div><div><a href="/users/luckymoneypuck" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer noopener">@luckymoneypuck</a> you’re literally just arguing for the sake of being right. I have incredibly high hopes for Smith and Celebrini. I have high hopes for Bedard and Clarke. A prospect and the game grows because of excitement and that’s how the game becomes better.

And here I spent 2 minutes to find people who are smarter than us to talk about Celebrini since you clearly won’t take the time to find the experts.

"Celebrini and Bedard are different players, but I think you can project that they're going to have a similar impact in the NHL," said Central Scouting's Jean-Francois Damphousse. "Maybe Bedard's shot release is something special that Celebrini doesn't have, but Celebrini has the competitiveness, playmaking, skating, IQ ... elite in every category. - NHL.com

“While Celebrini does not shoot it like Bedard, his ability to shoot off the pass and get to the hard areas of the ice for the dirtier goals have allowed Celebrini to score at a rate comparable to Bedard when adjusting for the competitive differences between leagues.

In Byron Bader’s hockey prospect probability model at HockeyProspecting.com, Celebrini barely trails Bedard’s draft season in terms of NHL equivalency. Bedard was at an NHLe of 62, while Celebrini has an NHLe of 60.

Bedard had more hype and certainly had better performances in the World Juniors, but Celebrini’s World Under-18 at 16 actually paced better than Bedard’s as Celebrini posted a Canadian record 15 points in seven games.

Comparing two players who play differing styles can be foolhardy at times. I think back to the years where people debated who was better for the Chicago Blackhawks, Patrick Kane or Jonathan Toews. Depending on the year it could be a different answer, though Kane’s prime lasted much longer than Toews’s.”
- Chris Peters

An example of Kane (Bedard) and Toews (Celebrini) - both franchise leaders for their team and had tremendous impact on the NHL.

“Celebrinis prospect models comparables are:
Kairya
McDavid
Bedard
Kane”
- Bader

Point is at the end of the day we should hope for Macklin to be a franchise player because he’s shown that hype is warranted. It’s better for the game, not better for Sharks fans. Having Macklin being a franchise star in California, only benefits the NHL’s success, and makes the game more exicitng to see another star. We should cheer for a prospects success not against it:</div></div>

Every year people compare prospects who are different. The argument you are making for the sole point of arguing has little barring.
Again, he's not graded as high and it is widely believed to be a weaker draft not only in depth but in overall talent level.
Some drafts are better than others. Period. Most times you know that prior to the draft.
I don't know why you are mentioning guys who aren't even in the same ball park. People knew years before the draft that McDavid would be a generational player. Much like Crosby.
Every step of the way he confirmed it. Unlike some other guys who were "anointed" for lack of a better term but did not make every step up to the draft. But people knew that too.

Either way, comparing players and grading them out is what people do. It's how we get to the point of people saying on draft day that Stutzle should go ahead of Byfield and Lafrenière.
Don't say we weren't out there because we were. We were also right.

Point being there is no issue in comparing different players and being able to grade them out. People do this every draft.
It's been assessed across the board about the talent level of the draft from top to bottom.
Not every draft is going to be great. Some are going to be 2012.
We know that going in.
But you seem to want to preach like no one else knows anything. You should pay close attention to the words those so called draft expert you quoted there use... compete..... as if that makes up the difference. You can't out work hard working high end talent. This has been statistically proven. In the long run you lose.
So saying he competes harder so his draft grade should be as high isn't going to cut it man.

People listen to the vast majority of scouts out there telling you, this draft isn't it and where he grades out in comparison.
Not some guy who says, yeah, his shot isn't nearly as good but he competes harder so....... he's just as good.
It doesn't work that way. That as you say, is an argument just to argue.

As stated before, it's not to knock MC, he could be a very solid player, but he's not grading out like he's going to be a FP level guy. That simply is what it is.

<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>NHLfan10506</b></div><div>If he could bottle jealousy and sell it, he be a rich man.</div></div>

dude get over yourself..... you sound like you're about to open the factory over there.
Forum: Armchair-GMWed. at 7:07 a.m.
Thread: go big or go home
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>Tjm220</b></div><div>$2 million isn’t that low, and my thinking is he’s not actually an upgrade over Girgensons. He has playoff experience which Girgensons doesn’t, but that’s all he has over him. You could say he had a bad year last year, which would be obvious. But I don’t know what he’s got left to give. That and we’ve seen plenty of AGM’s here where he is moved for fifth or sixth round picks, so I’m inclined to believe if you want him, he shouldn’t cost much at all. But I’m also inclined to believe the Sabres aren’t looking for a multi year deal for a fourth line player.</div></div>

they are not the "same guy" nor is Girgensons "better" than Acciari at what Acciari does. Girgensons is a 47.7% FO last year. For the last 3 years he's been under 50%.
Acciari is a defensive specialist who is really good on the dot. Last year he was 54.5% on the dot. That's 7% higher basically. That's a significant difference.

Acciari had no help or rotating AHL nothings on his wing most of the year last year. It is what it is. All D zone minutes, doesn't lead to big points.
In 5v5 play Acciari's zone starts are 85.6 in the Dzone, Girgensons is 52.1.

It's not even close to "the same player" in the "same role" and it's like you are just making it up as you go.

Either way. 850k buried isn't some player you need to cut bait on to "getting rid of his contract."
His contract isn't bad at all.
Forum: NHL SigningsWed. at 6:56 a.m.
Thread: San Jose Sharks signed Will Smith (3 Years / $4,150,000 AAV)
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>Ghost789</b></div><div>You’re a complete troll. A lot of people would’ve said MacKinnon wasn’t a “generational talent” in his draft year either but look at him now.. arguably the most dynamic and dangerous player in the NHL right next to McDavid. NHL analysts and scouts who have been grading prospects for decades still get it wrong more than they’d like to admit. Sharks have a top 3 prospect pool in the NHL and it will continue to get better over these next 1-2 years and I can see them being a bubble team in 3 years if they can add the right UFA’s into the mix. Point is.. it’s all uphill from here. No one cares about your “generational talent” argument .. it’s irrelevant.</div></div>

A. no one is talking about a generational level player, we are talking about a franchise level player.
B. no one is confusing MacKinnon with a generational level player, he's a FP level guy. Still really good, but a FP level guy.
C. you should start caring about the FP level argument because all analytics point to a positive direction on it. It's why teams like CAR who are continuously said are sooo good and deep.... can't win.
It is also why DAL has struggled to get over the hump. Maybe they do this year, maybe not, but it's always an uphill climb for a team that doesn't have that one forward who can take over a game for 25 minutes. When push comes to shove you can't out work talent that works hard. You need to get lucky at that point. As they say, occasionally even the sun shines on a dogs ....

So yeah, don't tell us how no one cares about the argument. The whole NHL cares which is why teams and fan bases with bad teams, choose to tank, or want to tank respectively.
Forum: NHL SigningsWed. at 6:49 a.m.
Thread: San Jose Sharks signed Will Smith (3 Years / $4,150,000 AAV)
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>drambui</b></div><div>well thats what im saying... im reading you quite well. How many franchises players are beofre the drat? 4-5 in the last 20 years? odds shows you need good players, most team dont have what you call a franchise players. odds shows you dont need one according to you, even with matthews and mcdavid, they are not winning the cup.

sharks are still gonna be bad for years to come. its a lottery, you just need to be happy when you win it.</div></div>

you are confusing a generational player like Crosby or McDavid with a franchise level player, they are not the same.
4-5 in the last 20 years is bogus. In any decent draft year there is at least 1 FP available. Some years people get lucky and there are 2.
It also isn't always that they turn out to be the 1OA. Pettersson in VAN for example. Or Panarin who went undrafted. Stutzel (who should have gone 1OA at the draft even at that time) is another example.
As opposed to say a Hughes, or Bedard who goes 1OA.
So it's not just 4-5 in the last 20 years.