SalarySwishSalarySwish
Avatar

RipNasty

Rip
Member Since
Dec. 12, 2022
Favourite Team
Toronto Maple Leafs
2nd Favourite Team
Seattle Kraken
Forum Posts
12226
Posts per Day
22.7
Forum: Armchair-GM1 hour ago
Thread: Leafs Get a Top Pair
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>Affectionate_Side_64</b></div><div>I've already explained it with common sense, and pointed to the countless examples that prove me right. You're free to believe whatever you want, I can't argue with someone who refuses to acknowledge the facts behind what I'm saying and there's no need to continue repeating myself. This is long overdue, but you finally made the ignore list. Have fun terrorizing your next victim!</div></div>

Common sense eh?

So when two people are having discussions, both parties should provide sourced information to strengthen their argument. Listing past scouting reports from when a guy was a draft pick 12 years ago and then saying it's common sense is not in any way supporting evidence. Jones had major potential and has never lived up to it. His results are middling. He's not very good in his zone. He's not very good in the offensive zone either beyond zone entries.

Neither of us are being paid to be hockey analyst, 1 of us understands that and it's why that guy uses actual articles, stars and expert analysis to support their stance. The other guy spouts his opinion and calls it common sense.

You should learn how debates work and then find some expert analysis to help you form your opinion and then at least have some 3rd party info you can rely on. Until you do that, it's just a loud, small man, getting mad at being corrected.

At least try to have something that can be substantiated in your next firey response.
Forum: Armchair-GM1 hour ago
Thread: Leafs Get a Top Pair
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>Affectionate_Side_64</b></div><div>There you go again using possession stats as a measure of defense. Let's just use some common sense here, would you expect the top matchup defenseman on the leagues worst team to have positive possession against the opposing teams top players? Probably not, because chicago is actively tanking and Jones is the last man back.

Now pull up benoits numbers in anaheim vs his numbers this year to prove my point about you missing context. Or Bush, or edmundson, or schenn, or any defensive D leaving a weak team for a stronger one.

You'd hope this would be common sense that possession metrics are not a reliable measure of defense, but you're still pounding this drum all these years later. I've tried to explain to you many times to help you understand why your opinion is ass backwards compared to common conception, but unfortunately it does not compute.

We'll return to this exercise if he ever joins the leafs, so you can ignore another example of everything I've explained being proved true. That's enough for today buddy, this is like a broken record at this point.</div></div>

You don't understand how any of these models work. You just say possession stats and make up a bunch of nonsense. Find any legitimate source to prove your case or admit you have none.
Forum: Armchair-GM10 hours ago
Thread: Leafs Get a Top Pair
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>Affectionate_Side_64</b></div><div>He is actually very good defensively, but people who take team possession stats and scale them down to individual players without taking into context his teammates, his usage, and his matchups continually make the same mistakes in evaluating players like schenn, edmundson, benoit, lyubushkin, etc. You were more guilty of this than anyone else, but once they started playing for the leafs you seemed to change your mind time and time again. So what changed?

Do you think it was just a big conspiracy theory to have him selected 4th overall, becoming a top pairing contributor within two years, shutting down one of the greatest offensive teams of all time during a 4 game sweep of the lightning when he was 22, serving as the #1D for a much less talented CBJ team? Scoring 9 points in 10 games that playoffs? Being among the first 3 players selected for team usa along with matthews and kane before the Olympics were canceled? Playing top pairing for the north American all Stars? Acquiring arguably the biggest trade package in league history for a defenseman? Signing one of the biggest contracts to that point in league history? Leading all active players in ATOI in the playoffs, and 2nd only to doughty over the last 5 years in the regular season? Do you thinking he won a ****ing lottery to get to this point?

Do people forget how doughty struggled when the kings were a weaker team? He was worse, on a better team than the hawks have been, is paid 11 mil a year and yet nobody bats an eye. Seth jones has literally been a #1D since he was 20 and that has not changed. Some of his underlying possession stats have changed along with the strength of his team but he's still been top pairing level throughout, and still elite compared to his teammates.

His tools are all very good to ELITE, right down to his size, mobility, puck moving, physicality, shot, offensive and defensive instincts and big minutes endurance. He plays #1 PK and PP, with an embarrassing supporting cast around him, usually cycling through 3 partners a year as chicago trades them away. Chicago's inexperienced forwards and lack of structural play regularly hang him out to dry and yet he still performs at a high level, playing huge minutes in all situations.

Do you remember how good mccabe looked this playoffs after coming from Chicago? Or Benoit coming from Anaheim? Lyubushkin from Arizona? Edmundson from Washington? Schenn from Vancouver? People said the same thing about all of them using the same data and were proven wrong almost every time. Now imagine a player better in EVERY facet of the game being brought into a team with the talent and structure that the leafs have. There's your minute munching pietrangelo/doughty level playoff D. Yes, that's the level he's on based on past playoff performance.

He's overpaid so people like yourself take that to mean he's "bad" (lol), but he's overpaid at 9.5 mil, not 7. You literally have no clue what you're talking about and you prove that to be true any time you make a claim about a defenseman who plays on a poor team. That's because you dont actually know how they're playing and make bizarre claims based on starts you clearly dont undersrand how to contextualize.

There you go playing the victim again as well. Attacking with venom? You certainly have a flair for the dramatic. How about not making claims about things you don't understand, only to play the victim when you get called on your BS? "You're just a mean troll! You're out to get me!!!"

You're easily the biggest clown on this site and you should have learned the error of your ways YEARS ago. Goodbye!</div></div>

None of this is at all evidence to support his status as a top pair defenceman. Being a highly touted young player means nothing when you are now 30. Scouting reports from when he was in junior means what now?

You gave a hugely long winded pile of used car salesmanship. What are his results? What are his impacts on the game.

When proposing a hypothesis you need numbers and hard facts not past scouting reports, speculation, reputation and nonsense. Find any model that shows him as anything but a below average defenceman. Anything. You like to talk about how much smarter you are, so find something to back it. What's his jfresh card. What does the athletic model him as? Anything. Natural stattrick. Anything.

I have seen several of these models and they match the eye test and results. So to just spoil it for you, none of it is good. And it's because, despite the past projections for Jones, he just isn't that good. Nurse makes over 9, does that mean he's obviously a top pair defender? He was billed as that once upon a time. And despite the very clear fact he has failed to become one, he's paid as one and there are no models that show him as elite despite the reputation. Jones is even worse due to being very poor defensively. All facts bud, go check it out. I suspect you won't bother, and likely because you already know what you'll find. So either you're too stubborn to actually admit you're way off base, or you just really want to fight with people so you take the obvious wrong side just to infuriate people. It's one or the other. If you were here for rational discussion, you'd look into Jones, see he's actually not good and horribly overrated and over paid and you'd just admit you were wrong. Thats how adults handle conversation.

Petty insults and anger are the way of children.
Forum: Armchair-GM14 hours ago
Thread: Leafs Get a Top Pair
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>Affectionate_Side_64</b></div><div>Go back through our old conversations, you know yourself we've been over this many times. Or, go to the scouting tool as I said. Or make **** up I'm your head, it's out of my hands.</div></div>

What I know and most anyone who actually does research knows there is no evidence suggesting Jones is a top pair defencemen. He is terrible defensively and only middling offensively. His contract was garbage the moment he signed it and no one understood the trade and sign when it happened.

It's not a surprise you have latched onto the single dumbest rumor on the internet. Its a sure fire way to get reasonable people to tell you it's bad. Which is what you hope for, so you can attack with venom. Tried and true pattern of the troll. Find something you know will lure people in and then attack. It's sad